President and Founder of Larry Jacob Internet Marketing, Diaz interviews Oli as a guest, part one.
Good, good Oli is chiming in here from the UK. He's up where in the middle of the country? Near Birmingham or in Birmingham? That my right.
Pretty close. Yeah, pretty close.
That's his, area. That's the area where he's been all his life and he heads up a marketing, a digital marketing agency in the UK. They do a lot of business with people here in the U S and I thought he'd be a great guest because he fills what I like to call one of the three key areas in all membership sites you know, if you've read one of my articles back beginning of the, of the year, you know, three key ingredients as I see them is you've got to have the membership site built, right? You know, that's the space where we thrive you've got to have your content organized in such a way that it gets consumed well by your audience. Just because it works offline doesn't mean that it'll work online. So that's the second one. And then the third one is you've got to have traffic.
You've got to have leads showing up on, you know, into your sales funnels, otherwise nothing happens. And that's Ollie's space. Right. So, yeah. So, what I want to do is have a discussion with Oli about the kind of challenges that membership sites in particular have and in particularly have and have him go over just some interesting issues because he has worked with membership site builders and, you know, a lot of the calculations, mathematics and things that go with it. And I thought that just be a great resource for people to have, you know, in this call.
Yeah, sure, sure. And then totally. We, we work with, you know, a lot of, membership organizations, a lot of people in the information marketing business that have a membership community. And, typically on some, you know, that revenue model is a recurring revenue, income stream for them and just like many memberships are. And so we found a George that there's sort of six really key, growth activators as we put it, that, that people that are running a membership businesses and selling training courses online, should be very much aware of, so that they can, really not just, grow and acquire new members, but actually sustain that growth and more importantly, of course, scale it so are these things that are focused on not just acquiring new clients but making sure that churn stays low. Right, exactly. Yeah, exactly. And so sometimes, you know, especially coming into something that's new, if somebody who's listening to this right now and maybe they're thinking about, you know, getting into building a membership site or having a member base in some way and have the long line course or some kind of learning management, environment where they're going to be charging people, monthly for their services this is very relevant but it's also very relevant for those people that have an existing business and they want to possibly reevaluate, reevaluate why they're where they are. And we've really come to find that work and we have lots of different businesses like this, including our own, you know, those indicators that are really tap [inaudible], that, that you really need to consider as a business owner in it. We'll see you, capitalize on, on what you've, what business you really am.
Okay. Well you mentioned six. So let's get going. I want to hear them.
Cool. So number one is looking at attrition rate versus growth rate. Now what that really means, first of all, we need to look at how you obviously calculate attrition rate. Now for most people in the membership business, certainly, you know, a, keyed in to this stuff. This shouldn't be anything new, but for those of you who are not, we're going to go through it anyway. So calculating your attrition rate, very simple calculation. It's the number of clients that you lost this month divided by the tug total number of clients at the beginning of the month. Okay. So that's how you're going to calculate your attrition rate.
So if I've got, so if I've got a hundred customers to pick a number and I lost five, I'm at 5%. Right?
Right, right. Exactly. And then the other number is very simple. You know, how many, what's the customer acquisition, in terms of your, your growth calculation is very simple. How many clients did we win this month? Okay? So you've kind of got those two numbers, then now, and so to calculate your, your, attrition versus your growth rate, what you do is you take the number one, okay. And you divide it by your attrition rate and then you times it by the average monthly customer value. Okay? That's the, that's the calculation that you're really looking for. And just to help people that are thinking, okay, I'm listening to you, or I'm watching you and you know, I could really do without, and somewhere I'll make those resources available to you at the end. So you've kind of, you can, you can come and get them from us, no problems at all. So that's really the first thing that, so you're saying you've got a calculator you're going to make available is what you're saying.
Exactly. Yeah, we got, we've got some graphical graphical diagram that shows people really any kind of, you know, recurring business or SAS business, you know, what they should really be looking for. And the number one is attrition versus growth rate. And that's how you go ahead and calculate that. Perfect. Now I know we've got a bit to get through and I know you probably want to dive into a few of these things and that was a fairly basic one that should be familiar to most people but the second is installing tracking. Now let me give you the context behind this. You see, as most membership sites grow, one of the most important things you need to understand is the to have accurate reporting. Now it might see in obvious that you might need accurate reporting, when you guys only got a small number of members, but as you begin to scale and you experience churn rates, and attrition starts become a consideration.
What you're really looking for are the indicators that somebody may drop off. They may cancel their membership with you. And so what you are trying to do is present in advance what that actually may mean. So for example, some basic indicators would be are they opening your emails? Very simply, put all they opening your emails. Okay. Because if they rely upon you to get course material, new updates, then you want to know that they can actually engage with that information so that they can go and take advantage of it. And more importantly, because paying for it, it's even more important. It seems very basic.
No, right. But I mean this year, if you're paying for something that you're not even opening the emails, it's like, well, this guy's on a short, you know, short timing.
Right, right, right. And, and so, you know, I, I think that, you know, are afforded with infusion soft, you know, the benefit of being able to put some of this reporting together. My recommendation for most is to use gruffly, gruffly great company. We use it to monitor some of these things that we're talking about here, to create a dashboard that is very visual for somebody. So attic [inaudible] look at, to find out some of these numbers. And with the new email builder, it's become slightly more difficult to track some of those opens, whereas grapple, they've kind of got that figured out a little bit more, than, than you having to go back to legacy. So, for, for emails. So that's really one of the first thing. The second is if you have a, if when you bring new members into your work old, you want to know if they consumed your welcome video or your introductory onboarding training sequence of content. So how do you do that? While those indicators may mean video consumption. So actually putting the right tracking in place, that's going to indicate that somebody's consuming your content. If you're on a 30 day trial membership and that's your audible and they don't consume the welcome video, there's a very good chance that at the end of the 30 day trial they probably won't be able to charge that card again or they won't cancel.
Right. And I guess you, I mean, you're assuming they even logged in, right? So you want to know if they logged in at least once. Right?
Of course. Exactly. And so, you know, logins are definitely, you know, next on my list of understanding the last login date, so you know what time has elapsed between different events. And then within that tolerance of those two time periods or two tags being applied in infusion soft, you can then kick off certain automation to try and get people back on side, maybe kick off a text message to them, they be kicked off of voice broadcast to then maybe do something that's going to elicit a response. Knowing what the action was that they haven't been taking, is all very much, a consideration. So the, the, really one of the other parts of this is, knowing that lax engagement, when was that last engagement and if it begins to tail off, then building things in advance to consider how we get them back on track. And you know, whether indications that the list of things like coaching calls, if that's supposed to attend a live coaching call each week or every month if they're not showing up to those coaching calls. So again, with interviews and stuff, very basic tracking, that knows that if they log in to, you know, webinar jam to go to the live coaching calls that month or go to webinar or zoom, you can apply a tag to know that they attended. And so that counts towards the recency of that behavior so that then you can make sure they're on a trip. And I guess compliment that with our, you know, maybe they could make the call, but are they watching the replays are the archive versions of those?
Oh, totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. And of course once they're in there, then you know, you can do these types of tracking that you know, you might find to do with the wise a little bit more difficult if they weren't within a platform or an environment. So the other thing is as well is actually teaming dock your support system with infusions off so that, you know, if they raise a complaint or a concern, meaning that there's an inbound ticket that comes in about something within the first 30 days or so, you can be proactive in knowing, well, is this something that we need to do to try and keep them on board within this, you know, onboarding period with you or maybe they are not with a free trial. Maybe they are a member, just the indicators and the tracking that going to say, Hey, this person has put five support tickets in. As soon as that customer failed hits five, then we immediately kick off some actions based upon that. So our, our analogy with this that I've kind of become synonymous with is, something that's saying every action or inaction that is a reaction. So we're always creating contingencies, and helping people make sure that we're on top of retention as a result of having that an in our mindset.
Yeah, no, no, and that's interesting because we've built in some additional reporting that we do. We take, we, we record a lot of notes with our sites that some of our customers don't even know we do because when they do need them, they're available and they're easy to do as you're building these solutions. But it's someone like you who's really monitoring it, that cares.
Sure, sure, sure. And I think the thing is is, you know, we call these things sentences cause really that looking for that sensing what's actually happening out there and some of the things that we, we track and I'm just going to blurt some of these out because we've got even more stuff to get through. So, clicks opens, Loggins pages visited time on page, how many for submissions that they may, how many referrals may have they given, how many videos that they watched, how many consecutive actions have they taken, how many subscription cycles they've been through, how many videos they've watched, how many inbound calls have been generated, even though you're online, but for the support of being generated, how many declined payments have been, how many actions have taken place this specific amount of time, time since last purchase, time since first purchased, the second purchase, a time since last login time. Since last clinic. All the recency and frequency and monetary stuff that we all know we can do with infusion stuff that really can make a big difference. Sure.